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 Our MoM drives me crazy! |
Da Sheik |
I love the guy and he is very talented and dedicated. But without fail, he will say about once a service "let's lift up Jesus because He said if I be lifted up, I will draw all men unto myself". Maybe it's such a small thing but when a scripture is continually taken out of context....
I suppose if that's the biggest issue I have then I need to hush. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1865
3/14/16 2:48 pm
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| misquote |
Ed Brewer |
...chastise the lad... common mistake, but not ok - he may not have even considered the theology of the cliche'
_________________
....from Barney Creek to Bountyland through every open door |
Friendly Face
Posts: 312
3/14/16 2:50 pm
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Link |
Maybe you could show him this verse.
Hebrews 6:6
If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
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Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11849
3/14/16 3:39 pm
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Dave Dorsey |
Is he teachable? If he is, just let him know. I would hate to be saying something wrong almost every week, and no one let me know so I could become more knowledgeable and effective.
You're his pastor. If he's teachable, teach him... if not, why do you have a guy who's unteachable leading worship for you?  |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 13654
3/14/16 3:40 pm
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| Jesus didn't say that? |
Paul W. Nolan |
John 12:32 "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself."
I'm just curious what the difference is between what your MoM says, and what the NKJV of John 12:32 says. |
Friendly Face
Posts: 115
3/14/16 4:08 pm
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| Re: Jesus didn't say that? |
UncleJD |
| Paul W. Nolan wrote: | John 12:32 "And I, if I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all peoples to Myself."
I'm just curious what the difference is between what your MoM says, and what the NKJV of John 12:32 says. |
I believe what our learned brethren are saying is that the context of the scripture is that Jesus was referring to His death by being lifted up on the cross, and that this young man is saying that we should crucify Christ over again. They apparently don't believe it could be a double-meaning. Now I'm sure its wrong, but the Bible I'm reading says in the footnote that the Greek used for "lifted up" means "exalted". |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3147
3/14/16 4:30 pm
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Nature Boy Florida |
C'mon.
MoMs have been lifting him up as long as I remember.
We never thought they were saying "Cru-ci-fy".
How about the 1800s Mom:
| Quote: | Lift Him Up
Lyrics ~ Johnson Oatman, Jr., 1856 - 1922
Music ~ Benjamin B. Beall
Stanza 1:
How to reach the masses, men of every birth,
For an answer, Jesus gave the key:
“And I, if I be lifted up from the earth,
Will draw all men unto Me.”
Refrain:
Lift Him up, Lift Him up,
Still He speaks from eternity:
“And I, if I be lifted up from the earth,
Will draw all men unto Me.”
Stanza 2:
Oh! the world is hungry for the Living Bread,
Lift the Savior up for them to see;
Trust Him, and do not doubt the words that He said,
“I’ll draw all men unto Me.”
Refrain:
Lift Him up, Lift Him up,
Still He speaks from eternity:
“And I, if I be lifted up from the earth,
Will draw all men unto Me.”
Stanza 3:
Don’t exalt the preacher, don’t exalt the pew,
Preach the Gospel simple, full and free;
Prove Him and you will find that promise is true,
“I’ll draw all men unto Me.”
Refrain:
Lift Him up, Lift Him up,
Still He speaks from eternity:
“And I, if I be lifted up from the earth,
Will draw all men unto Me.”
Stanza 4:
Lift Him up by living as a Christian ought,
Let the world in you the Savior see;
Then men will gladly follow Him Who once taught,
“I’ll draw all men unto Me.”
Refrain:
Lift Him up, Lift Him up,
Still He speaks from eternity:
“And I, if I be lifted up from the earth,
Will draw all men unto Me.”
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_________________
Whether you like it or not, learn to love it, because its the best thing going today! |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 16646
3/14/16 5:39 pm
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diakoneo |
| Nature Boy Florida wrote: | C'mon.
MoMs have been lifting him up as long as I remember.
We never thought they were saying "Cru-ci-fy".
How about the 1800s Mom:
| Quote: | Lift Him Up
Lyrics ~ Johnson Oatman, Jr., 1856 - 1922
Music ~ Benjamin B. Beall
Stanza 1:
How to reach the masses, men of every birth,
For an answer, Jesus gave the key:
“And I, if I be lifted up from the earth,
Will draw all men unto Me.”
Refrain:
Lift Him up, Lift Him up,
Still He speaks from eternity:
“And I, if I be lifted up from the earth,
Will draw all men unto Me.”
Stanza 2:
Oh! the world is hungry for the Living Bread,
Lift the Savior up for them to see;
Trust Him, and do not doubt the words that He said,
“I’ll draw all men unto Me.”
Refrain:
Lift Him up, Lift Him up,
Still He speaks from eternity:
“And I, if I be lifted up from the earth,
Will draw all men unto Me.”
Stanza 3:
Don’t exalt the preacher, don’t exalt the pew,
Preach the Gospel simple, full and free;
Prove Him and you will find that promise is true,
“I’ll draw all men unto Me.”
Refrain:
Lift Him up, Lift Him up,
Still He speaks from eternity:
“And I, if I be lifted up from the earth,
Will draw all men unto Me.”
Stanza 4:
Lift Him up by living as a Christian ought,
Let the world in you the Savior see;
Then men will gladly follow Him Who once taught,
“I’ll draw all men unto Me.”
Refrain:
Lift Him up, Lift Him up,
Still He speaks from eternity:
“And I, if I be lifted up from the earth,
Will draw all men unto Me.”
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Uh oh, I agree with NBF   |
Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere
Posts: 3382
3/14/16 5:46 pm
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Da Sheik |
My MoM is a cool guy. Not for a minute do I think he has any malicious intent to spread heretical ideas. I do think it's an improper use of Jesus's words but I can be OCD in some respects.
As to his teachability : In my experience everyone is teachable until you actually attempt to correct them  |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1865
3/14/16 5:58 pm
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JLarry |
Sit down with the brother and ask him to show you how he views the Scripture. Don't make it as a "correction".
Let him know how you have understood the Scripture. He may very well see the Scripture as it should be.
I have heard this Scripture used out of content many times.
_________________
Recorded Sermons @ www.pastorwiley.com
No one who died without Christ is happy about their decision. |
Acts Mod
Posts: 3346
3/14/16 6:49 pm
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Link |
What do you think of this song?
"Lift Jesus higher. Lift Jesus higher.
Lift Him up for the world to see.
He said 'If I be lived up from the earth
I will draw all men unto Me.'"
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Link |
Acts-perienced Poster
Posts: 11849
3/14/16 6:50 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
Even if the song were written a thousand years ago, it still would be based on a misinterpretation and misapplication of that Scripture. In context, it plainly refers to His death:
John 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.” 33He said this to show by what kind of death he was going to die. ESV
What's more, it seems to me that we Pentecostals and charismatics often have the rather lazy spiritual concept that if we just worship Jesus with all our hearts, all people will be drawn to Him, that people will just be mysteriously drawn to our churches if we only worship Him. But again, that is simply not even close to what the Lord Jesus was saying in context. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12817
3/14/16 6:53 pm
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Da Sheik |
| Quiet Wyatt wrote: | Even if the song were written a thousand years ago, it still would be based on a misinterpretation and misapplication of that Scripture. In context, it plainly refers to His death:
John 12:32 And I, when I am lifted up from the earth, will draw all people to myself.” 33He said this to show by what kind of death he was going to die. ESV |
I think that's what bugs me QW. There are plenty of scriptures that compel us to praise Him (or "lift Him up") but these references could not be clearer that they point to His sacrificial death as a fulfillment or type of Moses and the serpent of the wilderness in the OT. Furthermore one of the most famous passages in John chapter 3 make reference to this. When Nicodemus asked about how a man could be born again, Jesus basically said "I'm going to die on the cross for you"! Powerful stuff. |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1865
3/14/16 7:27 pm
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Quiet Wyatt |
| That said, it's definitely not the worst example of misapplying the Scriptures I've seen in song lyrics, and it's not a damnable heresy. Just a very mistaken view, at worst. |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 12817
3/14/16 7:50 pm
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| He is parroting what he has always heard |
roughridercog |
Maybe dealing with that verse from the pulpit might help.
What does it mean to when Christ is lifted up?
_________________
Doctor of Bovinamodulation |
Acts Mod
Posts: 25305
3/14/16 8:09 pm
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Paul W. Nolan |
Almost as bad as all of the years that we, in the COG, used Col. 2:21 to support our stand against the use of alcohol, tobacco, and drugs? That was definitely taken out of its context. ("Touch not, taste not, handle not.")
My understanding of John 12:32 is within its context of Jesus' point, His death and how it would happen. But, I also hold the "exalt" understanding of the same Scripture; we must exalt Him to the place that He is above humanity and the only chance for salvation for us.
After all, Moses had to put the brass serpent on the pole to be lifted up within the camp to be seen by anyone who was bitten by the fiery serpents. How much more should Jesus be lifted up for everyone to see Him, that want to be saved? |
Friendly Face
Posts: 115
3/14/16 8:22 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
Does "His report say I am healed," as in physically healed every single time?
Does the report of the Lord say this? Guarantee this? |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
3/14/16 11:46 pm
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Da Sheik |
| Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | Does "His report say I am healed," as in physically healed every single time?
Does the report of the Lord say this? Guarantee this? |
Depends on whether you hold to WoF doctrine or not 
We don't sing that song at our church btw. Instead we sing "The Church of God is Right Hallelujah", and my personal favorite "Enemy's Camp". |
Acts Enthusiast
Posts: 1865
3/15/16 12:29 pm
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Old Time Country Preacher |
| Da Sheik wrote: | | Old Time Country Preacher wrote: | Does "His report say I am healed," as in physically healed every single time?
Does the report of the Lord say this? Guarantee this? |
Depends on whether you hold to WoF doctrine or not
We don't sing that song at our church btw. Instead we sing "The Church of God is Right Hallelujah", and my personal favorite "Enemy's Camp". |
Hey, I'll shout with ya on at "COG is Right," Shiek. But at Enemy's Camp song has always concerned the ole timer. How does the devil just walk up an steal whats in ma heart? He must be a conniving ole slewfoot. |
Acts-pert Poster
Posts: 15570
3/15/16 12:36 pm
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bonnie knox |
Your MoM drives you crazy? I bet my son can identify.  |
[Insert Acts Pun Here]
Posts: 14803
3/15/16 12:52 pm
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