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curly

were there any female apostles

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1754 **10/14/08 12:26 am**

in the Bible. I heard that there was one in Greenville, SC. Is this Biblical?

Memory03

01000001 01100011 01110100 01110011 Posts: 21953 **10/14/08 12:29 am**

l don't recall any curly...
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Memory03
8233 post at the original Acts Board...

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Randy Johnson

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 5431 **10/14/08 5:39 am**

From my experience in life, if any of the apostles were married then, yes, there were female apostles, they just didn't have a high profile public ministry.

MS7777

Junia - chief among the apostles

Acts-celerater Posts: 725 **10/14/08 5:46 am**

Romans 16:7 Salute Andronicus and Junia, my kinsmen, and my fellowprisoners, who are of note among the apostles, who also were in Christ before me.

Junia, a feminine name of relative of Paul's.

Notice also how Paul (the supposed president of the he-man woman hater's club acknowledges all these women:
Romans 16:1 I commend unto you Phebe our sister, which is a servant (DEACONESS) of the church which is at Cenchrea: 2That ye receive her in the Lord, as becometh saints, and that ye assist her in whatsoever business she hath need of you: for she hath been a succourer of many, and of myself also. 3Greet Priscilla and Aquila my helpers in Christ Jesus: 4Who have for my life laid down their own necks: unto whom not only I give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles. 5Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Salute my wellbeloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia unto Christ. 6Greet Mary, who bestowed much labour on us.

12Salute Tryphena and Tryphosa, who labour in the Lord. Salute the beloved Persis, which laboured much in the Lord. 13Salute Rufus chosen in the Lord, and his mother and mine. 14Salute Asyncritus, Phlegon, Hermas, Patrobas, Hermes, and the brethren which are with them. 15Salute Philologus, and Julia, Nereus, and his sister, and Olympas, and all the saints which are with them. 16Salute one another with an holy kiss. The churches of Christ salute you
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UNCbluebleeder

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1397 **10/14/08 7:50 am**

You are inferring that Junia was an apostle, Paul never calls her one, just that she is of note to them. I don't see anywhere in scripture where a woman was an apostle. Now, that isn't a sexist statement, just a response to the question. Women played, and still play, crucial roles in the kingdom.
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Jason Adams

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1543 **10/14/08 8:45 am**

UNCbluebleeder, the text says, "who are of note among the apostles".

It does not say 'who are of note to the apostles'.

The word among strongly suggests she is one of the apostles. For centuries the male chavinists among us have argued against women having any leadership role in church.

That tradition certainly continues today.

John Jett

Golf Cart Mafia Capo Famiglia Posts: 4955 **10/14/08 9:10 am**

They were called the "Epistles" -- Thanks, I'm here all week - Very Happy

roughridercog

Re: Yes

Acts Mod Posts: 25305 **10/14/08 9:28 am**

BlessedinMsTn

How sad

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6126 **10/14/08 9:36 am**

How sad that you theologians here would try to create something that never existed...

Not ONE woman wrote one book of the Bible
Not ONE woman is found preaching or leading in the local church in the NT
Not ONE woman is an Apostle.....

and yet people so desperatly try to defend feminism with a demure scripture that not only is the gender of the person in reference unclear but so is the meaning of the entire scripture... and a person would try to use such to say that there was a woman Apostle....

Does one not find it strange that all the male Apostles are mentioned numerous times in the NT.. but this one lone woman is barely mentioned.. and do we even know it was a woman... come on guys.. ya'll jump all over me for "proof texting" and here you are doing the same...

Junias was not an Apostle according to the latest number of NewTestament Studies (Vol 47 Number 1 January 2001 pp 76-91) M.H.Brurer and O.B. Wallace, who hail from the Lone Star State, argue the Junia was probably a female, but not an Apostle. This is how it goes. Romans 16.7 calls Andronicus and Junia 'episemoi en tios apostolois - notable in/among the apostles.

Does this mean:
(a) notable members of the group of the apostles; or
(b) not apostles themselves but well known among (i.e. to) the apostles?

(a) is much the more fashionable translation at the moment. Of course , is has its problems. If Andronicus and Junia were 'prominent' members of the apostolic band it is odd that we hear nothing else about them; and odd that Paul, who is probably listing for the Roman Christians people who could put in a good word for him, didn't give them a more prominent billing on the list. So 'Apostles' would have to mean a different, lesser category then the Twelve.

But this is not what Burer and Wallace discuss. They examine what in extant Greek literature (60,000,000 words) the usage episemos en... means And their conclusion is that (b) is right: in other words, Andronicus and Junia were not apostles but were a couple whom the Apostles (i.e. the leaders of the Jerusalem community) knew and - Paul implies - approved of. If Paul had wanted to say 'notable members of the group of the Apostles' he would have used a different construction: episemos with the genitive case: 'episemoi ton apostolon' - well-know of the apostles.
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Daniel Rushing

Golf Cart Mafia Consigliere Posts: 3063 **10/14/08 11:30 am**

Uh oh. You've awaken Blessed from his sleep. Watch out, the he-man woman haters are in full force now. Wink

(Just kidding around Blessed.)

BlessedinMsTn

Hey brotha

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6126 **10/14/08 2:51 pm**

mytimewillcome

Re: Hey brotha

Golf Cart Mafia Underboss Posts: 3658 **10/14/08 3:17 pm**

maqqebet

I don't think that

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1771 **10/14/08 3:33 pm**

a female cannot be the husband of one wife (2 Tim 3:1), unless you embrace liberation theology and/or feminists theology.

Now, if the Apostle Paul's teachings are cultural bound, then maybe a female can be an apostle, but then some would say that this position would be anachronistic.

My mother-in-law was an evangelist, pastor, teacher, and could match any man in her day and endured many circumstances that would not be imposed upon a male simply because she was a female.

J. Vernon McGhee, one day on a radio broadcast did not disparage women pastors on the mission field but lamented that it was a sorry state of affairs that women would go where men often would not.

So, there you go... with God all things are possible.

Shalom!

I am...
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a pastor

Blesseds wife could out preach most men

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1302 **10/14/08 3:44 pm**

Of course that was before Blessed got THE REVELATION. I mean she was a Holy Ghost filled preacher woman. I suppose she preaches to women now.
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Not only does Paul not call Junia an apostle...

Acts-celerater Posts: 556 **10/14/08 3:59 pm**

but in the Greek, Junia can actually be either male or female.

Paul says these two were kinsman. That can mean relatives but is likely referring to them as Jews as he does in the book of Romans.

If Junia is a female, she is likely the wife of the first named.

Paul does not call them apostles, but says they were noted (stamped, marked) among the apostles. They were saved prior to Paul's conversion. If that is the case, do you really think they were stand outs among the original apostles?

No, they were likely a husband and wife, who were well known by the early apostles for their dedication and love for Christ and His Father.

It is so funny how we take one word, Junia, and make an entire doctrine of women apostles around it. I am not opposed to the idea of female ministers or apostles, you just can't make that doctrine from this passage.

Blessings!
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Jason Adams

Re: Blesseds wife could out preach most men

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1543 **10/14/08 4:15 pm**

BlessedinMsTn

Re: Blesseds wife could out preach most men

Hon. Dr. in Acts-celeratology Posts: 6126 **10/14/08 7:04 pm**

curly

Acts Enthusiast Posts: 1754 **10/14/08 7:52 pm**

Thanks everyone. All of these posts are interesting. If I called the name of the church and Pastor down in Greenville , many of you would know who I am referring to. I am not against these people nor their ministry. Someone just told me that the Pastor's wife is now called Apostle ......

R. Keith Whitt

Junia

Acts-celerater Posts: 684 **10/14/08 8:05 pm**

It helps if we actually look at what the Bible says -- without reading into it our biases and prejudices -- and then examine what we find in light of the understanding of those closer to the time it was written.

1. Junia was a female apostle. The Greek is pretty clear on this and Romans 16 is a who's who of female leadership in ministry. We can play semantics (preaching/teaching; corporate/private ministry) all we want, but the Bible is clear about the role of women.

2. There are no extant referrences of a male named Junia or Junias in the first-century. In fact, Junias is not a first-century name period, contrary to the biases and eisegesis of the Dallas Theological Seminary writers. Check the archives of first-century names for the primary, unvarnished evidence. I have.

3. Chrysostum clearly understood Junia to be a female apostle and rejoiced for her ministry.

4. Women were very active in the church during the first four centuries. I am sure that it is just coincidental that the Spirit left the church about the same time that men put the brakes on the ministry of women.

We've been down this same road many times, but some just refuse to accept facts. Prejudices are more important or comforting (or controlling???) than truth.

For the record, I was against women pastors until I actually began to dig (not prooftext or eisegete) into what Scripture says.

Keith
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R. Keith Whitt

Postmodern Preacher

Great position Keith, but... (Link)

Acts-celerater Posts: 556 **10/14/08 8:34 pm**

many readings of this verse reveal that there is still much debate to occur on both sides, even if some of the debate is from Dallas Theological.

http://www.bible.org/page.php?page_id=1163

http://www.godswordtowomen.org/juniapreato.htm

Not only is there still running debate on the femaleness or maleness of Junia, but even a greater debate on whether these were apostles or known of the apostles.

Your argument is strong but so is the opposing one.

As we all know, if all issues were settled, there would be no further need of harvesting trees for theological journals.

Very Happy

p.s. Oh yes, I remembered, we will likely be down this road many more times, in fact, almost every time we have a General Assembly. Shocked

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